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python is going to die! =(

marcus at deepfort.com marcus at deepfort.com
Mon Sep 20 07:10:31 EDT 2004 
julio wrote:

>  Sorry but there is no another way, c# .net and mono are going to rip
>python, not because python is a bad lenguage, but because is to darn old
>and it refuses to innovate things, to fix wrong things, just because
>retarded backwards compatibility and because the python comunity and
>developers refuses to consider tools as being almost as important as the
>language itself. 
>
>What does c# .net has that python doesnt ? (significant features) 
>
>-- tools,tools,tools : have people that likes python ever used an ide? i
>mean a good ide, the one that saves you a lot of time, and makes you
>productive.
>
> looks like they havent, they think new people is willing to practice emacs
>for 6 months before even thinking about being productive, not to mention
>you have to learn 20 years old list, and low level c stuff to have fully
>advantage. Those guys are realy happy with their stuff that totaly,
>completly refuses to try a new tool, a new tool that 'is' better, like say,
>an ide??.
>
> Then we have the , you just need a text editor. This is realy amazing,
>tecnology improves, people have to change their way of thinking, i realy
>cant count the number of text editors avaiable for python, with basicaly
>just syntax highlighting.For example, idle :
>
> idle is just a text editor with syntax color,nothing else, then you see
>that half of buttons are so fucking retarded things that you never
>need,indentation stuff, replace tabs and all crap that you never realy
>need, the class browser and path browser were in the right way, before they
>got abandoned with just the most basic low functionality.
>
> No help in real programing? why? why do i need to press a retarded button
>to indent-deindent reindent stuff but i dont need help with integrated help
>system , code completion , source assistant , a freaking decent calltips
>support, etc ? It realy makes no sense , no sense at all.
>
> Why do these people keep reinventing text editors again and again and again
>to just add some retarded functionality that noone ever needs? pycrust ,
>drpython, leo , idle , eclipse plugins(py editors with color) they all love
>to reinvent the wheel instead of trying to work together on some common
>project to do something usefull, boy if i want a text editor with syntax
>color i just use vim,or kate or something.
>
>For the C # Side there IS : 
>
> sharp develop, wich is going to be ported to linux and mac, and it is even 
>better than vstudio! is open source .
> 
> monodevelop , which is a little inestable but very very usable , and has
>real features!! proyect browsing , full calltips ,code completion,source
>help, doc help system , you know , productivity features.
>
>
> -- C # is almost perfetly designed, python is very well designed but it has
>some crap that obscurize it and is not going to be removed because of the
>damn backwards compatibility thing, C # has all the advantages there is
>new ,it has learned from other languages mistakes. Python must break
>backward compatibility to be at the same level of play. 
>At least python has just a few problems in this area compared to java,which
>is 50% crap , just to hold backwards compatibility. 
>
> -- C # is easy to use,fast apps coding (as python) but!! it has all the
>advantages of a compiled language , like less bugs concerning silly types
>mistakes , ides and tools can take much much more advantage of static
>typing , it is much much much faster , and finally is much more readable
>than python since i dont have to be guessing in the woods to know what type
>of value a function return , or what types are the functions argument or
>WTF does 'return MOM' means?
>
>-- C # is killing python, first the gnome guys dont know what to choose for
>their core system development , if mono-C # ? or java ? the only reason C #
>hasnt being choosen is because of legal issues, and java? well it realy
>sucks so no surprise , but is considered just because eclipse wich is the
>most kick ass ide ever. AND they dont even consider python for a high level
>language to choose!!
>
>  Look at source-forge,(around) python : 3000 proyects , C # 1500 proyects
>and C# is much younger than python, not to mention mono is new!! 2 times
>more C # proyects are started than python proyects by month, so very soon
>C# is going to completly replace python in their areas. Not to mention that
>C# proyects are generaly bigger, compared to small command line tools,
>python proyects.
>
> I think is a fact, reality , there is just no way python is going to
>survive, i would be happy if someone knows or see something i dont ,
>because i realy like python, but : C # which has all the m$ licenses and
>crap involved is so superior to python in so many ways, its not even
>funny,and C# has serius tools, ides ,etc. Look at
>nhibernate,nunit,njasper,the super sharp-develop ,monodevelop,etc. BTW
>wingware has a very nice ide, but close sourced and at a price of 200$ for
>os is ridiculous,and their personal edition is pure crap, no
>code-assistant ? lol. Is there a posibility python survives 2 years more at
>least? 
>
>Btw , nice quotes on python site : "Python has been an important part of
>Google since the beginning, and remains so as the system grows and evolves.
>Today dozens of Google engineers use Python, and we're looking for more
>people with skills in this language." said Peter Norvig, director of search
>quality at Google, Inc.
>
>But the google code jam, the one google searchs for new hackers to join
>their lines is only for c# , java , c++ , nice irony , lie,lie.
>  
>

I'm relatively new here, so I'll only briefly mention It'd be nice if 
you could post with a civil keyboard.

Dabbing away the spittle for a moment, that troll-post contained a 
nugget of truth.

A lot of Python users are open-minded enough to accept that huge bloated 
IDEs are *very* useful in the right circumstances (even if they're not 
our own circumstances), and intelligent enough to realize that the day 
Microsoft produces the best and most useful tool for those *taking up* 
the language, it's likely that the rest of us will get a lot of problems 
and headaches from that (standard Python programs which rely on .NET 
anyone?).

That's why there are a few different ways to get your hands on a python 
IDE (especially if you're able to shell out some $) and that's why 
despite the arguable dearth of really muscular and really free "visual 
IDEs" for python, a lot of us are constantly covering ground in this 
respect.

I'll stop, I've seen a lot of people respond to your posts, so with 
respect to yourself, I'll sit back and see from your responses here 
whether you were just fishing for flames or not.
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